As we brought in other people either at similar levels or slightly lower levels, they were all
working behind the scenes to make sure that I was disclaimed
📍 Welcome to Lonely At the Top, a podcast for high level leaders carrying the invisible
weight of the world.
Because you know the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to. Here we
welcome founders, executives, and decision makers who feel the isolation and pressure that
comes with power. Lonely at the top is your sanctuary in the storm, and I'm your host, Soul
Medic and former psychotherapist, Rachel Alexandria.
Today we have with us Gwen Bortner. She's the founder and CEO of Everyday Effectiveness,
and she gives successful entrepreneurs what they don't know they're missing outside
perspective, real accountability, and someone who will ask the hard questions that others
won't. After four decades in 47 plus industries.
Am I reading that right? 47 Industries? Yeah, it's true. It's not, not
not Jobs
industries. Gwen works with women who are objectively successful but too stressed to enjoy it.
She helps them build businesses that work well without taking over their lives. I have to hear
about 47 industries. Like that's such a great line in a bio.
I bet you get a lot of questions.
Well, it actually happened when I was getting coached a number of years ago. uh, we were
talking about things and he said, well, you've worked in a lot of different industries, right? And I
said, yeah. And he said, so what? Like, like 10? And I'm like, oh, no, way more than that. So I
sat down and I actually wrote it out, and it's 47. And I said plus because I'm sure over 40
years.
I know I'm, I've forgotten things. The reason I was able to do that is working at 19 as, uh, an independent programmer consultant. independent kind of person or a consultant working for a larger firm. lots of different
professionally I started
as a, you know, freelance,
so it allows you to hit
industries, mm-hmm without actually having to be an employee. But when you're doing the
type of work that I have historically done, I'm pretty deep into the business. And so I actually
have to understand, quite a bit about the industry before I can actually be of help. when I
say 47 industries, it wasn't like just barely, you know, passing through, but it was spending time
working with them, solving some, deep rooted kinds of issues and most of them were one
time hits in the industry.
And then I was off to the next one and I didn't necessarily hit that industry ever again.
Although sometimes I would take that knowledge from this other industry and apply it over
here into this different situation, which was completely unrelated. People like, that's really
inventive, but it's like, no, I'm just borrowing from other places.
Yeah. Wow.
it's not quite Jill of all trades because you were, you were doing kind of the same work, but
for very particular, I was
mostly doing the same work, but because of element of Jill of all trades in, yeah.
what I was having to learn to do, there is an
Wow. So were you working with top leadership most of the time?
it varied greatly. Mm-hmm. Depending on the type of project I was doing and the size of the
business sometimes it was much more, I'll say in the trenches, kind of work. But
other times I had opportunities to be working with either, CEOs or their, management
leadership team or in, in some cases, working with, folks that were in the process of
developing big things.
one of my, I'll call it feathers in my cap. When I was working for, in Ernst and Young, I was
actually on the very small projects. It was super secret, like double key entry into doors. I
mean, it was ridiculous. Mm-hmm. That actually became sprint cellular eventually.
Wow. I forgot about
Sprint.
Right? So, right. Everyone's forgot about Sprint, but you know, sprint was long distance, right?
Uhhuh way, way, way back when. And there was a process for bidding for the, what was called
the PCS licenses. Uh, that was put on by the FCC. Wow. So that you could get into what
eventually became all cellular.
Use of the airwaves, key executives Wow. And, I was a key player in that project, so I was in with, all working together to create this new entity, right?
four,
Mm-hmm. Had all of those opportunities and part of my career, I actually was an executive
of a phone company and, and was, uh, a top executive there. So when we talk about from
the top, I, I've lived it. I, I grew from being the ninth employee hired to having nearly a hundred
people work under me.
Wow. In 18 months.
Ooh.
Okay. So you have experience all across the board. All across the board, which is probably why
you do what you do now. It is, it is. what was your favorite? what did you like the best out
of your career before you started your own business?
You know what's, what's always my favorite is whatever I'm working on at the time.
It
be because I like the experience of figuring things out and learning things and, and seeing
what's new and how can I improve and, where can we make improvements and how can I
help others? and so the answer is still the same today. You know, people say,
Hmm.
who's your favorite client? It's like, well, whoever I'm talking to at this moment is, is my
favorite client, you know, because, because I'm in it. Yeah. I, I love being in it.
Wow. You know, I wonder if that's not really a CEO mindset.
What's the, what's the expression? 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. there
are people like you and me, and a lot of the folks I've had on the show who are just so
interested in solving problems. Mm-hmm. I think that's the thing that makes these people
successful.
Above and beyond anything else is that desire to be like, I, I wanna do it. I wanna figure this
out. I'm gonna take responsibility, I'm gonna go the extra mile because I want to see it done.
I, I think it's a combination of things. I think that curiosity factor is huge.
Mm-hmm.
I think it, I think it's really, really huge. but I also think it's, actually, are experts on ADHD talk about is it's an effective use of ADHD.
I've heard other experts that
Yeah. I, I have noticed that a lot of the clients I work with have some neurodivergence for sure.
And, and it's part of it, it's a way that you can, you can channel that.
Um, skill mm-hmm. In a very productive way. And so there's been, some research that's,
that's gone on, That the percentage of entrepreneurs that have some level of diagnosable
ADHD is huge.
Interesting. As compared to the general population is, but it's because it's a great way to be
able to, to leverage that in an effective way and to make their work environment work for them
too.
Yeah. My fitness trainer, who's really like a movement specialist and a, a good friend of mine,
um. And trains, Olympic style weightlifting and all kinds of things.
He just posted a video saying, I work out all the time because it's my ADHD stimming. Like,
it's just in a, a socially rewarded way, but I have set up my environment so I can continually,
mm-hmm. stim, exercise and move my body because that's what I have to do, right? And it's
worked out for me in this way, but it's not that I'm so dedicated and disciplined, it's actually
like a compulsion,
right?
So I thought that was interesting. identify with for yourself?
since you know about this, is this something you also
I definitely don't fall in into, 'cause I've, I've had, you know, various en environments where
I've been tested and it's like, no, I am not.
At all on, on the spectrum, as officially te uh, testing for it. Mm-hmm. However, um, I also
know when I walk into highly entrepreneurial rooms mm-hmm. I am the odd duck. Mm-hmm.
Interesting. And part of it is because I come from, um, much more of an operations and
systems background, but I have enough of the tendencies that
it does work for me. And that's also part of the reason I do the work I do, is because I am the
balance to that. I, I can stay focused, I can be the calm I can do. Mm-hmm. All of the other
things. in any room, it's never a hundred percent right? There
there's always, you know some percentage that's not normal for the room. What It doesn't,
what the room is, right? Yeah. And often I'm that percentage, I'm that, I'm that 1%, that 2%,
that 5%, and I find it interesting to be, yeah. To be that percentage. Um, and you know,
I started out in programming in the early eighties. Mm-hmm. So, needless to say, I am used
to being the odd duck percent. Yeah. Women were not doing that then.
Right. You know,
we, we didn't talk about it as STEM, we didn't talk about, any of those things. And, I'm
used to being not the normal person in the room, and that's where I find curiosity of how do I
perceive things different than what, how they're perceiving things?
Mm-hmm. I identify with that for sure. Like I have always also been the odd duck in the room.
Um. And in some rooms it's because I'm more neurodivergent and in some rooms it's because
I'm less so.
Right. Yeah, I'm the same way. I don't qualify for any particular diagnosis or label or anything
like that. But I'm highly sensitive. I'm an empath. Um, and I think I understand people who
are on the autism spectrum people who
don't present. Like who, who are able to, with, neurotypical society.
work and behave in ways that they fit in mostly
Right. What, what we have decided is the right way.
Sure. Well, just the, the majority, right? Right. The, the neurotypical majority. Um, although I
swear I have so many people in my life, my clients, my friends that have ADHD that I'm like, is
it really, is it really hard?
Yeah. That's why I said it's more about the right
way. I sometimes think it's more of a systemic issue of we've decided this is the way it's
supposed to be.
Yeah. It, it will be interesting. I have noticed helping several of my longer term clients
become aware that they have ADHD and now that they're taking the medication, they, some of
the problems they were coming to me with are not there anymore, which is amazing.
I have had
similar conversations with my clients without actually, you know, having the background that
you have, right. That saying, could this be a thing? You might wanna, you know, and usually
they're seeing someone that they can actually, you know, and it's like, maybe you should talk
about that. Yeah. I always say, and then they come back and they're like.
OMG. Yeah. I always send people back to their psychiatrist or whatever. 'cause I'm not a
diagnostician. I, I'm no longer, holding a license, so.
Right.
Um, but yeah, women are so vastly under diagnosed because we're better at masking and
required to adapt to a system that has dis privileged us. Right.
So, yeah. Well, and one of
the things, the expert that I heard talking about this said is also the ADHD shows up in ways
that is not actually disruptive
because we can't, we're not supposed to be disruptive.
Right.
But we were, you know, whereas exactly. Boys will be boys, right. There is a, a systemic
allowance for young boys and men to be more disruptive.
it's not shamed by parents in the same way. It's not societally pressured down. It's, it's not
represented as a problem. I have a whole, we could go off on a whole thing and this is not an
ADHD podcast, so I was gonna
say, we've completely, pretty much gotten off the topic.
Yeah, yeah. Well I think, I think the topic is also though. What makes you stand out? Like the
lonely at the top experience is one where you are different than other people around you. Mm-
hmm. You know? Yep, for sure. So what is your experience of that? of being isolated or, or on
the outside at the top?
You know, it's, it's really interesting 'cause when, when we started talking about, coming on
the, on the show, the thing that popped into my head really immediately was my experience
when, um, in this startup where we grew mm-hmm. Very, very quickly. Um, because I was
absolutely pulled out because I was the only female vice president in the company.
It was, it was a technology company. but on top of it, I ran the IT department. So not only
was I the only female, but I also was running one of the two or three technical departments. I
wasn't a female doing marketing and I wasn't a female doing HR. Right. Which of course were,
you know, kind of the, the typical places, more typical mm-hmm.
That, that you would see them. And so, um, it was one of those places where. Although I, I
worked with people that I really liked and I really respected. Um, in the end there was definitely
some serious loneliness at that position. Mm-hmm. Because, um, as the business grew, so for
a while I was the only person in charge of IT.
And, you know, it grew and grew and grew and, and we needed more people. Mm-hmm. Um,
as we brought in other people either at similar levels or slightly lower levels, they were all
working behind the scenes to make sure that I was disclaimed Oh, as being invalid.
Oh, wow. And the thing was, there weren't really any other women at my level to talk to.
So they were trying to take you down?
They were trying to take me down.
Wow. I mean, I can think of lots of times and ways this has happened, but do you know why?
I don't know why, but I do know it worked because ultimately, our IPO was scheduled to
happen two days after the.com crash in 2000. Oh. So our business went phoomp, and then
immediately we had to lay off over 50%.
Wow. Maybe two thirds of, of the staff. And, um, I was informed it would be best if I would also
leave the company a couple weeks after the layoff was finished. Wow. And so, um, I. I, I was
tired. I had a severance package that came with that, and I said, okay, fine. Peace. And yeah,
and, and so one of the things that I did though is I did stay through the process and lay off a
huge percentage of my, my team and was part of
doing that and what, what had to be done. And so the two weeks following that I was, I
basically was was out of there Yeah. And so one of the things that I asked was to talk to, and,
'cause I had good relationships with the senior VPs and the CEO and I, there was about four of
them that I said, I'd like to have lunch with you.
Yeah. And talk about. You know what's up, kind of what's happened. Yeah. Right. You know,
it's been done. And it was interesting every one of them, all of these were men by the way.
Um, said, we made a really bad choice in letting you go. Because what we realized is, we got
bad information, They all made it sound like you wouldn't do the things that needed to be
done. And you were the only one in the foxhole when it came down to it.
Mm-hmm.
Says all the ones we thought were gonna have our back did not have our back. You totally had
our back the entire time says, and you were out of everyone the least likely that needed to have
our back because of what we had already done with you.
Wow.
And it says, but we know that you won't stay at this point. I was like, Nope, I will not stay at
this point. Wow. that was a situation where it was really lonely at the top because there, there
wasn't anyone who got what I was going through. Right. And, and part of it was the ones that
I might have been able to talk to were not hearing it because there were ha there was too many
other voices.
Yeah. What does
that, I mean now, now you're speaking about it kind of matter of factly. At the time that do to you? how did you handle that psychologically, emotionally?
what did
Well, the thing that I realized was, um, the piece that I had not put value on while I was in this
leadership role was the, political game. Mm-hmm. That is required to be played because a lot
of the political game is about communication. Mm-hmm. And, making sure that you are, you
know, I'll say tooting your own horn and, and making sure people are aware of what, what's
going on. We think they are. Because it seems like it's obvious
they are not,
but they are not.
'cause they're only focused in their, their little, little space. And what fundamentally had
happened was several people were taking credit for things that I was doing or had done. Yeah.
Um, you know, in ways that, that weren't appropriate. And when, like I said, when the rubber
hit the road and it became very obvious about who was doing things, it was like, oh my gosh,
gwen is the only one that's actually Doing the
things. So that, I hear you talking about kind of the lesson you learned. I'm just curious, like,
what was the emotional impact?
So the emotional impact for me at the time was like, huh. See, I knew better. I knew I was the
right person.
And, like I said, I was tired because we literally had grown from a team of 15 Yeah. To 2000,
yeah employees in 18 months and we only acquired one company, A small company. Yeah.
Everything else had been done. Interviews, hiring, you know, I mean,
when you started to notice that there were attacks coming from within, from underneath you
and you didn't have anyone to talk to, how did you handle that?
I was so oblivious to it till it was near the end. Like I didn't Yeah. Really realize what the
problem was. Yeah. Until it was raised to say, this thing's happening. I was like, huh, this is
really this, this is real. I mean, I really, and this is part of what I bring to my clients is I don't get,
I'm not highly emotional, you're not reactive.
I'm not reactive. Yeah. And it was just like, Hmm, that's really interesting. Why did that happen?
So it never felt
upsetting to you or? I
felt betrayed to, you know, because I knew I had done the work. You know, I knew I'd been
there and done the work. Um, but I also knew. This was going to be some sort of a sinking
ship.
Ah, so it was like, eh, you know, don't, it sounds like you have like, good, I, I don't, don't
need to stay on this ship. Yeah.
It sounds like a really healthy perspective, right? a lot of people fixate on why is this being
done to me? What did I do? What's wrong with me? And it sounds like. You were like, wow,
that that hurts because I am doing a good job.
But it's a sign that I should get outta here.
It was, it was very much out from, you know, left field, kind of like, whoa, what, you know,
where did that come from? Um, and because of all the other things going on, part of it was I
didn't have the luxury to sit and just wallow in
it was like, okay, I just need to do the things that I need to do. But what I really did was say,
what have we learned from this? I had always in, you know, my mind said, politics are
stupid and you don't need to do it.
And, and I'm not gonna play that game. And, you know, and it was like, oh, that, that was the
cost of not doing politics.
Mm. Yeah. What a, I mean, a really remarkable mindset to be able to look at things and, you
know, take a hit and then go, okay. What is this here to teach me? What? What can I learn
here? This is a similar mindset that I have, but I rarely encounter it in other people.
It's probably why you and I bonded so quickly.
For those who are just listening to the podcast, Gwen just made this little, uh, I don't know
how to describe this gesture, but it's sort of like a witchy. It's
the, it's the evil, it's the evil genius gesture. It's,
it's the evil genius, like twiddling your fingers in front of your face. Like she just made that
gesture when she said that.
That's awesome. has that always been how you've been able to think about things?
For much of my life. I mean, there's always a few things that will, will, um, you know, hit me
stronger than, than others. Mm-hmm. But there, there are a lot of things that very quickly I can
say, what are we learning from this? what do we take away from this? Mm-hmm. Um, one
of the things that I use a lot with people is, um, people tend to wanna say, if I would've done X
sure. It would've been better. Sure. Right. Because that's how our mind wants it to be. But I
always say, all we know is it would be different.
Mm-hmm. There, there is absolutely no proof it would be better. Right. It feels like it might be
better. And the example I always use is, um, I got married and divorced pretty, pretty quickly,
like it was within a couple years. Mm-hmm. And, and so, you know, no kid, it, it what I call the
most painless divorce that could possibly happen.
That it was, that it was a divorce. Um, you know, we didn't have to stay in contact. You know,
there, there was just. It was clean. We just did it. It was done right. Yeah. Um, and I've had
people say, well, I bet you wish you'd never married Greg. And it was like, no, because the
things of going through that process allowed me to be able to do other things
Yeah.
That I wouldn't probably have done. And that led me to the wonderful husband that I have now,
and I've been married to for 27 years. Yeah. Ooh. 27 years. Good job. And so it's like, would it
be better? No. All I know is it would've been different. Different,
yeah. I think that when people get into that, trying to rewrite the past, you know, by making
different choices thing, it's just grief avoidance, right? Yeah. They don't wanna feel their
feelings.
And they're trying to bargain with the past, which of course is futile and pointless and delays
healing. I'm with you. Like I, when I was in grad school, one of my therapy professors said,
wisdom is acquired through suffering.
Like you can learn knowledge intellectually, but wisdom is only acquired through suffering. And
it really stuck out to me, partly because one of my classmates got furious and argued very
heavily with him because I don't think she wanted it to be true, but. In my experience, it is, you
know, you only, I mean, some amount of suffering is optional, right?
Like you don't have to prolong the suffering. But that initial feeling of betrayal, that initial
heartbreak, that initial like, oh no, this thing isn't working out. And I had thought it would, and
I'm sad. Or I'm angry
or the
frustration
or any of, any of those things. Yeah. Yeah.
That's, that's where we get the wisdom if we're smart, is go, okay, that sucked.
I didn't like those feelings. What did I learn? Then you know it in a way that you can't know it
through reading story. Like how many of us have read stories or watched movies or seen a
show and been like, oh, ha, ha ha, that dumb person. And then went ahead years later and did
the same thing. That we saw not work out for someone else and maybe forgot that we saw that
story and then we're like, oh, that's why you don't do it when it doesn't work out
well.
And you know, the thing, the, the example I often use is there is not probably ever been a child,
you know, in the last a hundred years that hasn't been told, don't touch that it's hot. Yeah. That
didn't first understand hot by touching it. Sure. Right. And it's, it's not that someone said, okay,
go ahead and burn yourself, because we want you to understand what the pain is, right.
Until we actually experience hot to some degree and realize, oh, pain, pain, bad. Pain bad.
Exactly. Then we say, oh, now I can take that and intellectualize it into how do I, you know,
how do I apply it? I think that's exactly right. That's the wisdom piece. There's a certain
amount that we have to experience.
Mm-hmm. Well, speaking of which, let's get into. I think we've, we've talked about the
leadership season that tested you. 'cause that's, that's the story you just told. But let's get into
the private ledger because when you're at the top, no one sees your balance sheet of burdens.
Here we like to open your private ledger and let people take a peak. So can you tell us one
cost you paid for being in leadership?
the cost and leadership for me was time.
I think it's a, a cost for a lot of folks of being able to either put boundaries or not put
boundaries on time. Mm-hmm. And I think folks, when they can really put boundaries and hold
boundaries on time, the cost is so much less. But I think this is also an experience thing that
it's hard to understand what that, what that cost is.
I am not a morning person, so I was not someone who was coming into the office, you know?
7:00 AM or 6:30, you know, to get some quiet time before the busyness of, you know, all of the
other things. I did it on the other end, right? So I would show up between eight and nine but I
also wouldn't leave until six, seven, sometimes eight, sometimes longer.
and part of part of that time was when I first married my current husband. And so that was
time that we didn't get to spend together as much. Although he was a consultant for my
company, which is how I met him. So sometimes we were working together late. That's so. So
we'd still get a little bit working
together.
Yeah. No, we really were working together, but you know, we, we were together. Um, but it
would be like, we would both finish the thing and it's like, okay, I guess we need to go get
dinner, you know? Yeah. Um, and the, and, and that would be the other cost is although we're
often making more money, we're often also spending more money.
Yeah.
Right, because we were eating out, you know, all the time. There, there's so many things that,
that you end up having to spend money on because to support
the lifestyle Yeah,
yeah. To support all of the other things because you don't have the time, you know? Mm-hmm.
The, the whole time money, um, balance is a reality, you know?
Mm-hmm. If you don't have time, that, that, that usually means you've got more money, and if
you've got more money, then, then you're probably spending it to, regain your time. Right. Try
to ease the stress. Yeah. I think that's another big piece is to understand what, actual costs
are coming with that leadership piece.
But the time one is the one of course, you can't get back.
True.
Um, you know, one of my favorite lines from Charlie in the Chocolate factory is, um, you know,
they'll print more money. They do it every day.
Well, tell us one invisible asset that you didn't realize you had at the time.
the asset I think I had at the time was not understanding solving, resilience combination.
the value of my curiosity, problem
it took quite a bit later before I realized what a unique gift I actually had.
Mm-hmm.
In the way that I approached curiosity and problem solving. And the way that my mind would
work that would line things up and solve problems very, very quickly. Um, and didn't really
value it in the way that I probably, you know, should have, um, or could have, um, and didn't
probably leverage it in the ways, that I could have.
But you do now? But I do now. Yeah. And I, I would say along the same line, the other asset is
not understanding. Um, how strong of a communicator I am. I did, I I did not leverage that in
the way that I, that I should have. Back to, you know, telling myself, you don't need to be
political. That's silly. Right. You know, where politics is really a lot about communication.
I, I could have done well with it if I would've valued it.
Right. Okay. And one investment that you're making now for your wellbeing or your soul.
So the thing I do now, I discovered this, it was probably a, maybe two years ago now, is
floating Oh. And so floating is go, is going into a, a, like a sensory deprivation pod.
Um, there are, you know, different places that you, that you can do it. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh.
The pods also have lights, so you don't, it doesn't have to be dark, you know? Right. You
know, all of those things. You're in a private room, so if like the whole I think I'm gonna be
claustrophobic, it's like, just leave the thing up, you know?
Then you're in the, you know, it doesn't have to, it doesn't have to be crazy. Yeah. But I'm a
water person. Like, people are like, oh, go get a massage. And it's like, I'm okay with a
massage, but it, it does not give me the woo-hoo that everybody else seems to get from it.
Okay. But man, the float. I love it. I've always been someone who could float in the water.
You can put me in a pool and I can just, blah, and I can just lay out in, you know, kind of that
T, T position and I can float without doing anything. Um, that, that's good news and bad news,
but, but I've always been able to do that. My husband talks about, are you gonna go hover?
Because this water is so salt dense. He is like, right, you probably hover above the water
because you float so well. Yeah, but it's so relaxing, it's so meditative. I have such great
thoughts. The, the water itself is actually the Epsom salt so, you know, is good for your
muscles and, and all the rest of it as well.
Nice.
Yeah, I have floated once or twice. the thing that was a challenge for me is actually I wear
contacts and they recommend you take them out for the float because if you get that water
in your eye, it's very concerning and you need to be able to rinse it out.
I really love it. It's, it's the place where I can just blah. And Have you ever
had like a hydro massage? Like a massage while in water?
Um, I have not tried that. That would be something I would be potentially, potentially interested
in, but like, I haven't
tried to either.
I, but it sounds like it might be a thing. Love float. But when, when I
discovered the float, it was like, oh, this is
my
thing. Nice.
Nice. Okay. So let me ask you, what do you wish more leaders felt permission to say out loud?
I think all leaders need to get, um, more and more comfortable with saying, I don't know, I need
help.
Um, I'm exhausted. Mm-hmm. You know, kind of all of the things that we have, uh,
stereotypically positioned as not what leaders do. Mm. But I do think good leaders actually do
all of those things.
Mm-hmm.
and aren't afraid, and there aren't repercussions for doing those things. Mm. Yeah. Because I
think in, in, depending on the environment, part of it is if you do that, then it's like, oh, well then
they're not capable.
We need to get rid of them.
Mm-hmm.
Which isn't, which
isn't, it's toxic. Yeah. Yeah. Which isn't, yeah. That's just that sort of toxic, excessive capitalism
idea, right. That mm-hmm. We should be functional and performing at our highest all the time.
Like that's ridiculous. Right? Yeah. I think that's, yeah, super useful.
And, and what I've heard echoed on the podcast frequently, but I'm tired, is one that people
haven't said a lot yet and agreed. Like being able to, to sort of signal I'm gonna need more help
because I'm flagging
right. That, that this is exhausting, and either I really need time away. Mm-hmm. That's, that's
real time away.
Not I'm going on vacation, but you're going to, you know, I have to check email every morning
or Right. You know, you're gonna still text me from time to time, or, any of those things. Yeah.
Or I need additional help, or I just need to not have to work as much for a period of time.
Mm-hmm.
I need to be able to take my, you know, 8, 10, 11 hour days and turn them into four or five, six
hour days.
Yeah. so before we get to the last question, the time machine question, I want to just see if
anyone's interested in hearing more about what you do or like, do you have any open space for
clients and what does that look like?
I am always open for a conversation with, with anybody. Um, because if I can't help, I often
know someone who can help. And so that's, that's one of the things.
And I'm an extrovert, so I actually like a really full zoom, you know. Zoom filled calendar makes
me very, very happy. So nice. So even if I'm completely booked, I still like to have, have people
reach out. And you can do that by going to the website everydayeffectiveness.com and um, go
to the contact page and, and there there's an email there to reach out to support and, We'll
get you scheduled for, for a conversation. Love, love having a conversation. Absolutely
nothing wrong about that. And I'm always looking to see, um, you know, who is a good fit for,
uh, for me to work with and, and, uh, it's changing all the time ' So, um, absolutely always
looking forward to having the conversation, but for tho those who are like, uh, I think I wanna
like test you a little bit more. You can always find me on LinkedIn at Gwen Bortner.
And, um, you can also listen to the podcast that I host with, uh, my, my friend and kind of chief
people officer, uh, Tanya Kubo, who you know as well, Rachel. Mm-hmm. And Tanya's
amazing. That's thebusinessyoureallywant.com. And we have similar but very different kind of
conversations about how do you, how do you design your business life to be what you really
want it to be?
Mm-hmm. Nice. I, I would recommend it. I, I've actually listened also to Tanya's standalone
podcast. Oh, her new podcast? Yeah, her new podcasts. Find Your Freaks. I was actually
hoping to have her on the show. I, but I don't know if she is seen my outreach, so I'll have to
now it's a call out. It's a call out on air.
She'll love that and she'll be like, yes, I'm in.
Whew.
Well, yeah, I hope people do check out your work. Um, I I didn't usually, usually I start the show
by saying how I know the guest. Um, I don't remember how we met.
I don't either. was it Jennifer
I know, I know. Someone must have introduced us and we had a connection.
Urezzio? Oh, it might've been, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
that's probably who it was.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, that's
probably who it was. Yeah,
that's probably who it was. Uh, Jennifer Urezzio is my teacher and, uh, she just meets a lot of
really cool people and introduces them often. Gwen is someone who also knows a lot of cool
people, and that's part of why we've stayed in orbit with each other.
Yeah, for sure.
So we're gonna open the time machine. I always want, I always want my post-production to
put time machine noises in here.
I probably have to go find some and do it. say to yourself earlier in your career?
If you could step back in time, what would you
The thing I would probably say is communication is the most important skill that you could
possibly have, and we all think we're good at it and nobody is.
Mm-hmm.
We think we're good at it because, you know, it's the, it's the second big milestone that we
have as human beings.
We learn to walk and we learn to talk. And because we start talking young, we think we're
good at communication. Um. You know, for most of us, we do it our entire lives. But, um, it's
always a challenge and the better and more focused we can become on communication.
As a leader, in any role, in any position, as a employee, it doesn't matter. It's gonna make it
better.
Mm-hmm. Nice. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a, I loved being on the
show, but I am not surprised at all that I would love being on the show with you, Rachel.
Thank you. That's so sweet. 📍 Thanks for listening to Lonely At the Top. If today's
conversation resonated, I hope you'll give yourself permission to pause even just for a moment
and check in with what you might be carrying silently. You don't have to hold this all alone.
I work with leaders who want to clean up their secret messes. You can learn more
RachelAlexandria.com and if you know another leader who needs to hear this, please send it
their way, because yeah, it's lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to stay that way.
