Meeting Loneliness in the Chipotle Parking Lot with Zach Rehder

📍 the things that was , one of our great teachers, would be the stress and the anxiety. I
always tell people , these are our friends,
If stress or anxiety is present, it's a friend. It's letting us know that I'm not present, not
breathing, I'm usually believing something that's not entirely true.
📍
📍 Hello and welcome to Lonely At the Top, a podcast for high level leaders carrying the
invisible way to the world on their shoulders. Because you know, the higher you rise, the fewer
people you can safely talk to. Here we welcome founders, executives, and decision makers
who feel the isolation and pressure that comes with power.
Lonely At the Top is your sanctuary in the storm, and I'm your host, soul medic and former
psychotherapist, Rachel Alexandria. Today, oh, such a special guest we have with us Zach
Rehder. He's an international teacher, speaker, and healer with decades of experience in
meditation, breath work, and energy healing.
Through a series of profound awakenings, Zach has become a channel for transformative
teachings and energies that heal, unlock, and awaken human potential. He travels the world to
lead workshops, seminars and online programs, and provides private sessions to clients from
all walks of life. Whether in person or remote,
his sessions have led many to experience incredible healings and awakenings. Often beyond
explanation. I am so excited that you are with us. I have actually attended some of Zach's
workshops and that's how we got to know each other a long time ago, and when I say know
each other, we've interacted at his workshops, this is sometimes I interview people who are my
clients or my friends, but this is one of the interviews where we don't know each other super
well.
I think it was back in 2015, that I went to a talk, I think that you were giving, then I went to one
of your breath work experiences
and it was profound. It was my only, probably my only time ever really doing breath work
because, as an asthmatic I was a asthmatic as a child. There's a part of me that's very like,
don't mess with my breathing. Like, don't tell me to breathe differently. I need to have a hold on
my breathing.
And do, and do you still have asthma?
It's there. It doesn't flare up very often. Yeah.
Yeah.
So, thanks for coming on the show.
Thank you for having me. Yeah, it's an honor to be here.
What made you say yes?
I, I make just about all of my decisions by the feeling, by the intuition of it. There was just
something that said yes. And so I , always wanna explore that.
I'm sure people who are not already very woo, as I like to say. Will be really curious, what does
it mean to have profound awakenings? What led you to this path?
Ooh, where do we start with that? So, I would say an awakening is where we, see from a
different place where we maybe move out of a paradigm or a belief or an understanding that
we're in to a new perspective or to a bigger perspective. I think people probably have those
more often than, they realize just like those, those moments where something just changed and
it changed forever and everything is different from that. And then also, sometimes I've had so
that, that are very large, that just, change absolutely everything that kind of, rocked me for
quite a period of time, just 'cause everything changed. I would say my journey started by, 18
or 19 years old. I just I knew there was something out there, but I didn't like what anybody else
was saying about it. I was looking for God, but I didn't like anything that I'd heard, the versions
that were told to me or the people that I heard talking.
I was like, that's not it. And so it became, this deep dive into everything I possibly could. And
so I was always the young kid in the workshops with all the older people. You know, just
reading every book that I could. I was always searching , I spent, a good period of my life, 15,
20 years of just trying to devour information and realizing oh, I understand a lot now and I have
a lot of knowledge now, but, my life isn't very much different.
I'm still not happy. It's like I understand all of this stuff, but it's actually not, none of it's really
working for me. And so that was this really profound, shift or opening that happened one day
of realizing it was that it's not about the understanding.
Again, it's like the understanding is just the mind trying to, to grasp or hold onto or figure out. I
always love to remind people that who we really are. What we really are. Why we're really here
is beyond the mind's capacity to fully understand or comprehend. And so as I've worked with
people, you watch where somebody stuck.
They're usually stuck in one of these understandings that they don't fit into anymore. One of
these identities that's limiting them or holding them back from discovering who they really are.
Yeah, i've gone through my own awakenings. You know, the one that I received when I was in
the workshop that you were leading, the breath work workshop. , I had a lot of struggles and,
well, so this is really on topic with feeling alone. I wasn't at the top, but I did feel alone I.
Remembered wanting to make more connection with people like you, people who were living
and working in a way that felt like where I wanted to be, but I always kind of felt isolated and
the vision that I had during that workshop, it was like I could see me as this bright purple light
and then a bunch of little white lights, which were the people that
i'm intended to help, or that I do help the people that I serve, as a channel, as a wise person,
as a teacher, as a therapist, all the things. But then I looked around and I saw your purple light.
And then I saw tons of purple lights, other people who are also leading and teaching and
speaking and that we were all connected.
And there was just a feeling, you know, so it is an understanding that I retained mentally, but it
was a feeling. That I never, I was fuller from that, from that moment on of just knowing this, like,
oh, I'm not alone. My people are out there, we are connected. Nothing changes that. So that
would be an example for me of a, of an awakening that I had.
That's beautiful. love that I get
Thank you.
10 years later too.
It was a long time ago.
That was experience until now.
Right? Yeah. I'm surprised I didn't send feedback or something, but it was probably very raw
and tender at the time, you know, those are the things that you don't immediately just blather
about . Like you hold them and you allow them to take root and really become something. Is
there an awakening in particular, a story that you can share to help listeners understand what
that could be like? I shared one from me, but maybe you have one also that would be ,
revelatory.
So when we spoke earlier about , the title of the podcast and we were talking about the
experience of loneliness, and I was
Mm-hmm.
you know, that was a a huge, just a huge experience for me one time. And, um, guess we can
talk about that one.
It's, one that changed my life forever. And it started out I was just going to get lunch at Chipotle
The Chipotle story. Yes.
, Just gonna go try and get lunch at Chipotle and I pulled up, I'm in my car and I got my
parking space and all of sudden it's like. Emotion that I cannot truly put into words. I called it
infinite sadness and infinite despair and
Mm.
loneliness. And it was so overwhelming and it just came out of nowhere and I didn't know what
to do with it. It was such a intense experience that, uh, I would've done anything to get out of
it.
So. Luckily I was in my car and I didn't have any, there's nothing to do. I have no way to, to
check out really quick.
Mm.
and there's,
Scary.
, Yeah, it was a wild experience. And so, during this time it was like, I'm just , in the depths of
these feelings and these experiences. Something is telling me to let go and I'm like arguing
with it because I'm fighting against whatever this is, with everything that I got.
Like, I don't wanna feel this.
just trying to hold onto something, I'm, I'm trying to hold onto the way that it is, but I don't even
know what I'm holding onto. But I'm just , there's , almost this knowing of like, this is going to
transform me. Uh. But what it felt like is this might destroy me. And I don't know if I'm gonna
survive through this. And so , there's a holding on to it and all of a sudden it's that same voice
as like, just give up. And I finally was like, I was so exhausted I couldn't fight anymore. And
there was this surrender there was finally like, this, okay, whatever. Like, you know, there was
an F it moment of, of
Mm-hmm.
like this is miserable. I can't do this anymore. And so this is this surrender. It was amazing.
In that moment of just sort of letting go of this, it was like all of these experiences I was having,
the sadness and the despair and the loneliness, to name a few, they became the most beautiful
things that I realized I'd like, oh, I've never actually even seen this before.
And so I was laughing. It was just, in this very same feelings. It was like they, they became
beautiful and miraculous. And, and I got to see, for instance, it wasn't like, that wasn't sadness
that ever felt so bad. It was what I was doing with sadness. It was my resistance to sadness.
It was my judgment, my understanding,
Yes.
myself from this experience that I am was the absolute miserable place of sadness or
loneliness or despair. It was like, oh, it was never that thing, that's just a vibration. It was that
my mind had turned to this vibration to miss something wrong or bad, or not okay or separate
from me, and that was all of the pain and. And so it was these transformed and up until that
moment I, I had a healing practice and I was working with people and, you know, if someone
came to my office sad, I was like, we gotta help you be happy because that was,
We gotta fix that. We gotta get you out of it,
And, and then that, that was just speaking to my
right?
My own being lost in that, it's like I didn't know sadness yet. Once I did get to know sadness, it
was like, oh, it's never been a problem ever since. And if someone is sad, it's like, no, let's
honor this. Let's be with this.
This is, what the magic, this is what you wanna get to know. , It was such a profound shift. It
changed everything. 'cause I think we spend most of our life in the avoidance, trying to control
the way that we feel trying to avoid all of these things. I was speaking to someone the other
day.
Um, know, it's like I, I don't know if we would have professional athletes if we weren't avoiding
our feelings. I don't know if we would have billionaires, if we weren't avoiding our,
We definitely, definitely not billionaires. No, we would not. I don't know about professional
athletes. That's an interesting question. , Yeah. Would we.
because,
I don't know if we'd have professional athletics. Right. But we'd still have people being athletes
because it's fun.
Yeah.
To be a professional athlete, you have to, not listen to your body , you know, you're pushing it
past, you're not really listening to what's really the most optimal way of being with ourselves.
And,
Hmm.
What I was speaking to that it's like, again, that busyness that, that we all create in whatever
way to avoid feeling the things we don't wanna feel. And so again, it's
Mm-hmm.
whatever our favorite way to check out or to distract, or to
diassociate.
Yeah, you're totally on it. And it's interesting because I feel like my work is even more dialed in
these days because I'm in my late forties. A lot of the people I attract are gonna be in their late
thirties at the earliest and closer to mid forties, and I feel like when you're in your twenties or
maybe your thirties, you can overrun. You can overperform, you can throw yourself into your
work, you can throw yourself into your sports, you can run marathons, you can do all those
things too
quote, calm the anxiety. All that extra energy that you don't know what to do with all that hyper
vigilance, everything that has come up in your life that you feel unsettled about, you can throw
it into those places and over do because your body is young and it will
hide or compensate or recover faster, and as we get older, we're not able to do it anymore. The
body has a limited amount of time that it can protect you kind of from the consequences of
overdoing. You get into your late thirties and forties and your body's like, oh, well you know, the
bills come due, basically.
And when you can't run an Ironman anymore, you can't do the triathlon or the marathon, when
you just no longer can force yourself to work 80 hours a week. The feelings are all still there.
And you have extra care you have to take of your body because you're in pain.
Yeah,
And that's where a lot of people show up to these workshops that you were in at 19.
and I wonder too if it's actually, and obviously there's thing that happens as we get older in our
bodies, but I also think there's a bigger timeline that's happening. And so I, I don't think even
young people,
Yeah. Tell me.
now, can't, can't do it the way, you know, kids in their twenties now they can't do it the way
that we did it when we were in our twenties. And it's like
Hmm.
Waking up quicker. They're realizing, I keep hearing these different things about the
generations and it's like, wow, they're awake and they're not putting up with that anymore, or
they are.
They have extra stressors, right? Watching the world break down and people our age, I think
you and I are in a similar generation, but you know, the world appeared to be functioning.
There were not as many existential threats.
I think when we were in our twenties and thirties.
probably was. We just didn't have as much news.
We didn't have visibility on them.
You just didn't know about it.
Well, it's always all falling apart. Right. And coming together.
well, and it's part of, I, i'd rather see it as hopeful, there are things falling apart and there are
things that are breaking down and it's necessary for creating the new, the new level and a new
society that's much more healthy for the people and the planet and all of us.
It's that moment you had in Chipotle. It feels terrifying when everything feels like it's coming to
an end. The way that you knew it, the world that you saw is coming to an end and you were
resisting it with all your might, and then when you allowed it when you surrendered to it, when
you couldn't fight it anymore.
Something much more beautiful is what showed up.
And I would say we don't have to have moments like that. We get these moments all the time ,
where you see some terrible news. And And our mind is instantly go into some worst case
scenario. And this is gonna be awful. How many times did we, that this was the end of the
world?
In high school, how many times did we think that, I wasn't gonna survive this or whatever. And
so realizing we get chances for those little, we could say those little awakenings every time. It's
like, I'm going into story that this is terrible and that we're screwed and, there's no getting out
of this.
But, realizing , wait, that's just the story. And that story hurts, right? That story doesn't feel
good. I always try to teach people everyone is so incredibly intuitive and aware. We all deeply
know truth when we find it. and everyone has their own way.
And it's not the logical truth, it's like that deep truth that we all know in our bodies and how
does someone,
Hmm.
what is their relationship to that and how do they know that? And what does it feel like when
you just know? It's like when you just know something, when you're just tapped in, when
you're feeling alignment with something. It's usually something that someone cannot put into
words. They can't explain themselves. It's like, I just know this. How did How did you know to
be there? And it's like, I don't know.
But I just knew, I was like, we all have that deep knowing. I like to invite people, it's like the
more that you get to know that deep knowing, it usually feels open or spacious or connected.
There's a relief in it. And so really that's how you know, truth. Use that as your, comparison or
use that to check in with , all of these ideas that we have, it's like, oh, the world is going to hell.
Does that feel like deep truth or does that feel different? It's like, no, that feels very different. So
the world's not falling apart. This isn't the end of the world for me. Okay. This isn't the worst
thing that ever happened to me. Or, ,
Mm-hmm.
unraveling those stories become less and less powerful and less and less interesting. And we
find ourselves just living more from that knowing. And knowing , I don't know how this is
working out for me, but it feels like it's okay. Right. I know that I'm safe.
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like taking a big breath. They're like, yeah. I mean, it's always good to be
reminded and to be brought back in. The mind helps us navigate the world. And at the same
time, uh, I'm sort of laughing because this is way into the, philosophical and the esoteric than I
usually am on the podcast, but it's so on point.
This story of being isolated, of being lonely at the top is in some ways true that people are
peerless in their leadership and loneliness is not what we think. So I know you work with a lot
of people individually and you've been doing this a long time and I think you have some very
important people as clients.
I have no idea who's on your client list. So what's your experience from watching people who
have very high level jobs? Is there anything different about their struggle or anything that you
end up focusing on with those kinds of folks
more? What stories you help them work through.
I would say, maybe our stories are more unique at the surface, but as we get down deeper and
deeper into , what's really driving the stories or where they're really coming from, it's amazing.
Fascinated by how we are absolutely so incredibly unique and we're also exactly the same at
the same time. And so. I find, I, I always tell this to people, what if everything that you were
looking for was found in the places that you don't wanna look? It is those feelings. And
whatever the struggles in their job, it's like, well, what are you avoiding in your job?
What are the feelings you're avoiding? Or what are you using? Your busyness or, whatever it is
to cover up or to push aside. And so it's, really getting to know those, and oftentimes it takes,
if someone is very busy and, leadership roles can be very demanding. There's always stuff to
do, right. There's a to-do list that's never, ever, ever gonna be totally done.
A business will fail if I don't X, Y, Z, but well, you still found time to go on this vacation with your
family and Okay.
Like
Like
that's always funny,
right.
any time, but, but you just got laid out and couldn't show up , and I guess you did have time
and so.
The world doesn't stop spinning when when you stop.
but, but those are powerful to feel so someone that's say, it's I don't have time to slow down.
It's like, yeah, but what if you did? And what might happen? It's like, oh, things might fall apart.
Okay, well let's feel what it feels like if things might fall apart. And again, 'cause, 'cause
Hmm.
, That striving is often, like pushing so hard is almost always rooted in resistance of whatever
we're running from. And,
Mm-hmm.
and feel those things that we're running from, it's like, oh, wait, now there's no pressure
anymore.
Now there's no fear that's driving me. Now I get to, now it's like I'm creating art. Why are you
creating art? Because I love to create art. I'm not doing it to run away from anything. I'm not
doing it because I'm incomplete and I need something else.
I'm doing it because this is the song that wants to come through me.
Hmm. I mean, I, I totally get it. My little poet heart is like, yes. But is that the languaging that
your clients would use? Do they, have this awakening and then see their CEOship as the art
that they're creating and the song that they're singing?
depends where someone's at, right? And one of the things that was , one of our great
teachers, I would say in that role would be the stress and the anxiety. And I always tell people ,
these are our friends, stress and anxiety.
If stress or anxiety is present, it's a friend. It's letting us know that I'm not present, not
breathing, I'm usually believing something that's not entirely true. And so. Yeah, try it out. It's
usually a hundred percent of the time, it was like, right, I
Mm-hmm.
I was worried about next Friday was in this story that it has to be done by
Mm-hmm.
Almost like the world's gonna end if that's the case. And it's like Right, the, the truth is I would
like it to be
Right.
then
And there might be consequences if it's not done. Yeah. But consequences are not usually
everyone dies
Yeah, yeah,
and the world ends.
yeah.
It's probably not that.
gets people in that, again, we're running away from those feelings, and it turns into fight or
flight. I see that there's this interesting thing that our mind does, it often files in. Often is,
twisting up. It's so funny, my words are, I'm losing words today, but , we so miss.
Are you don't, don't tune into my perimenopause, don't, you don't need to take on any of my
word forgetting hormone stuff.
One of the things that we confuse so often that we, , misunderstand that uncomfortable means
unsafe because that's the thing.
Hmm.
these feelings that we have not felt, they are absolutely uncomfortable. Right?
They're absolutely uncomfortable and, and it's so easy to misunderstand that, that means it's
not safe. And so we put these systems in place just doing anything we can to stay ahead of
them, to keep away from them. Where it's like, no, no, this is just uncomfortable. And so I
always think it's such an important piece for us to really, for all of us to really, really know, to
know what safety is inside of us , and not the logical version of safety. It's that deep knowing of
safety , that's so important because
Mm-hmm.
tell people, it's like , if deep knowing says you're not safe, you need to get out of there. Right.
That's the
Mm-hmm.
priority. But say I'm in a very uncomfortable environment or a chaotic environment, but I know
that I'm safe. It's like, okay, well let's be here then, right? Can I open up here even more? Can I
really breathe with these feelings and that's gonna transform you? ' cause all of those places
where we get to open up a little more, where we feel that feeling a little more, we're just gonna
find more of ourselves. It's almost like , we get these pieces back of ourselves. We get, we
become
Hmm.
more complete.
Yeah, I'm having so many thoughts and flashes as you're sharing that, and I think this is why I
wanted you on the show. It's such a useful stance, I don't wanna say it's a different way of
thinking. It's more like putting yourself in a different stance of, okay, so I'm lonely at the top,
and what if I don't run because that feels uncomfortable.
What if I sit with that feeling? What if I allow it to teach me something? And I think that's what
people come to someone like you. Someone like me to have them hold that space. 'cause I
know every time someone's about to sign on to work with me, they'll be like, I'm looking
forward to it, but I'm also scared, like, ugh.
It's like a very complex feeling. And I'm like, yeah, it's the uncomfortableness rising, but at the
same time you feel you're safe. And sitting in that paradox is, is unusual for people.
I wanna invent a new word because people say I know to do this. I know that it's safe, but I'm
also scared. And it's like, what if that's actually not scared? Because , again, if I'm safe
Hmm.
there's no reason to be scared. Scared is like that my life is in danger or
that that we're in trouble.
Mm-hmm.
oh, okay, so what if that's not scared? What if that's not fear? And I think we mislabel, we use
those words scared and fear so often. And uh, most of the time that's not actually what this is.
I still haven't come up with a, I wanna invent a new word so that we can ha have a Yeah,
I wanna pull out the, the feelings wheel. We need the feelings wheel here, where it branches out
to variations, right?
it's we, have decided that something is fear or scared, again, your system will start responding
to it like you are in danger. and so we do kick into fight or flight and,
Mm-hmm.
again, it was like sometimes just having someone realize, be like, is that really fear? No. No,
that's not fear. Okay. It is uncomfortable. It is intense, but it's not fear. Okay, , now I can
actually meet this . Now this is
Yeah, I,
to be curious about rather than something to get away from, know, at all costs.
yeah, I would call it apprehension anxiety. To me fear feels like, yeah, feels like run. Someone's
coming at me with a knife run. I'm scared of physical danger, but apprehension or that, kind of
on the edge of my seat feeling. That's more what I would label that. And yeah, there maybe
there needs to be a specific word for the particular thing you're talking about.
I think this is the expression, right? Fear is just.
that's been said for sure. Yeah, yeah,
Yeah, so makes sense because then you do the breath work. You're like, well, let's put some
breath in there.
it's, it's this magic. It transmutes and integrates and transforms everything that it touches. And
so, we could say any of the uncomfortable emotions or experiences or our past or traumas that
are held, it's kind of like, this is just something that I haven't , fully been able to breathe with
yet. , And when it comes
Mm.
you know, we have. Well, I'll give this, example of anger a lot. I always tell people, when you
start opening up, the stuff comes up, right? Like that next piece. You open your capacity and
now you can be with this, this emotion or this experience, or this memory in a new way in
which you haven't been before. And it just needs our openness. It just needs our breath. It just
needs to be felt, you know? So it's the thing that often hijacks that is this mind that wants to
understand everything and it's always making meaning about everything and it's very
uncomfortable if it doesn't have a meaning for
Hmm.
And so it truly is just making stuff up all the time. So I, I give people this, you know, this, I
always
Mm-hmm.
at the end of a breathwork uh, ceremony where it's like, you know, hey, things are moving now.
I tell people , if you've been suppressing anger for 40 years and then we open up like this and
things are gonna move, you're going to experience anger at some point in time this week. And,
and it's just old stuff. It has nothing to do
Mm-hmm.
but your mind is gonna try to make it mean something about right now your mind is gonna try
to turn it into a story that makes sense. And, and when we do that, it hijacks us. It kind of, it,
takes the experience I'm having and now we're more off on the interpretation of the experience
I'm having.
And so always tell people minds do not feel, they think the feel , and so I've always shared this
question, what if, I mean for a
Mm-hmm.
what if this doesn't mean what I think it means? A nice, mind to interrupt? Like, Hey, let me set
this story aside so that I can really. Be present in myself and breathe deeply and see how much
I can open my body and really just feel what I'm feeling. That, that, that's where the magic is.
Mm-hmm.
I love it. I love it. And I, I notice I have to stay in the mindset of the host of the podcast. 'cause I
just wanna be like, yeah, man, like, and then, share similar stories. I'm having my own
experience, as you're talking and it feels like all my body is like, yes, this is all true.
This all feels good. And it's interesting, and I guess maybe this would be a question listeners
might have too, is , how do I stay grounded in the tasks I need to do while I'm also enjoying a
more, I'll just call it, the categorization is kind of difficult, but a spiritual experience.
Like if I'm in the feel goods, I think a lot of people worry that they're then not going to be able
to do their tasks, which still do need to be done. We still have to eat and pay the bills and get
the kids to bed.
ideas, built in as, these worst case scenarios , of why to just keep everything the way that it is
and keep everything the same . I think there's that zen saying, chop wood and carry water,
before enlightenment, after enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.
It's like, yeah, it's like, not,
Chop wood carry water. Mm-hmm.
more present in our lives. Um, and so, wow. , I, I still, I'm still probably gonna feed myself, but
now. There's so much less of the other things going on, you know, the thoughts and the beliefs
and the control and all the other things going on, or, or now I'm doing my job from,
Hmm.
from inspiration.
You know, I'm just coming through. It's like I'm, I'm here because I know to be here, not
because I have to be here 'cause I have to pay bills or all of these other stories really just will
make anything so much more heavy than it
Hmm.
Um, I've, I've worked with so many
Mm-hmm.
I've never found anybody.
You know, people think they do it's something for the money, and I've just never found that to
be the case once. But if you are in your job or career, whatever it is, and like the, what's the
main reason you're there? It's like, oh, 'cause I need the money. It's like, that's the lie that is
heavy, just add more heaviness to every single thing that you do in your career. And so I realize,
wait, that's not why I'm here. And,
Mm.
and, oh, I'm already enjoying my job more or, or whatever it is that I'm doing. When I take off
the responsibilities and the obligations and the tremendous amount of stories that we have
mixed in about why we're doing what we're doing.
Yeah. When we change the inside, everything feels like it changes on the outside. You help a
lot of people and you are , the side by side to a lot of people's transformation. Do you find an
experience of being somewhat peerless? Because most of the time you're , the healer, the
servant, the servant healer kind of experience.
Like,
Yeah, I was thinking
what's that like for you?
One thing that I noticed that I, I do get to spend a lot of time holding space for others. And,
there comes times where I, I don't have time to talk to my friend. You know, I don't wanna get
on a phone call to, just, to catch up with somebody.
'cause I am like,
Yeah.
I don't, I'm, I don't have the resources. I need my downtime and my quiet time. And so, I would
say , my process, and especially this year, , I have had had a pretty tremendous schedule for
the last, dozen years , doing hundreds of events all over the place and it makes it extra tricky ,
that I absolutely love what I do and It sucks. Every, everything I go do, if someone
I get it.
there's people having, these profound experiences and it was like, oh, I had to be there for
that. Right. This, but definitely knocking on my door there is this big that it feels like okay, that
time is coming to an end , of being on the road so much and traveling so much and winding
down that, and I would say I am kind of in the middle of not knowing what comes next and
then what exactly that looks like next. And so I know that we get those opportunities to just sit
in that , we're letting go of all of this, but don't know what I'm picking back up yet or don't
know what I'm doing next.
And so that's been, yeah, there's some wonderful feelings in that to feel and. It would be very
comfortable if I had it all figured out going forward, but there's very much this. Yeah. I don't
know if I'm doing any of that anymore.
Do you feel like often being the person who's holding this space does that ever feel isolating
for you?
I don't know if that feels isolating. The way that I hold space too. I discovered this, I discovered
like how powerful this was. Even , for my process and for my opening of I want to feel
everything that everyone else is feeling. So when we're in a process with someone and , they
might have had this tremendous childhood experience that I didn't go through.
I, I didn't have that experience, in the past , or just watching how other people might meet that
kind, there's kind of like, whoa. There's, we want a separation. It's like, I'm glad I didn't have to
go through that, or, I wouldn't wanna feel that, or I wouldn't want have that experience with
what that person is feeling. And I realized, for me, the more open I can be and the more
willingness I am to feel I can just be with somebody in their process, I get transformed every
single time. I didn't have that exact life experience, but I gained some wisdom from it.
It actually just opened me up in a new way. And so I would say in that space with others, is it,
it's very deep connection. So I don't think there's a loneliness there. There is the, I'm in that,
I've been in that space a lot.
And then there's the recovery from the, just the, intensity and, and just the, the,
The intensity.
and the nourishing and, um, my self care
Yeah.
game is much, uh, like I, I
Mm-hmm.
at self care and that was my. That was my question how do I get better at taking care of
myself, you know, just a little bit more every day? And, when I'm home, my self-care game is,
Mm.
it's, it's high level. When I'm, when I'm traveling, , it's not at the same place.
Mm-hmm.
um, I, I feel like what's coming next is less travel and more being.
Right. So I hear in your answer that when you are really in alignment with what you do and you
love it, and you are so fulfilled by it loneliness is less of an issue. You're experiencing being
connected. You're not separating yourself from your client's experience. You're having that
experience with them and you're experiencing transformation with them.
And so even though you are the space holder, you are also being filled.
about loneliness, I, that experience that I talked about before of, the Chipotle parking lot,
loneliness transformed me. I realized it was like it was, the edge of my ego. It was the most
uncomfortable thing that would always have me get away from it, retreat from it, distract myself
from it. It was almost like that last layer. when I finally let my, when I
Mm
surrendered to loneliness and felt loneliness and let loneliness have its way with me, it was was
oneness.
It was just pure, pure joy. It was just unlimited connection, realizing alone.
Mm-hmm.
Mm. Yeah. It's like, , that poem by, is it Rumi, the Guest House. I don't know it off the top of my
head, but uh, maybe I'll link it in the show notes. Understanding that everything is here to
partner with you, not to isolate you. so in the private ledger of Zach Rehder, would love to hear
one cost you feel like you've paid for being in leadership.
paid, I would say up until this point, there has been a cost with, , friendship and community ,
and relationship of just, being on the road , and teaching and, just in service a lot. Last month, I
think I was on the road like 20 days, which is, it was more probably my busiest month of just
being gone. But it was like, that, that's not good for my marriage and it's not good for just, , my
friendships, I have , my list of like, oh, I need to check in with this person. I need to catch up
with them.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. If that makes sense. And I, I feel that, as I've gotten busier in my work, my
friendships were always my first priority, and I realized if I wanted to get my business to a
sustainable level, they couldn't be first anymore. You know? It had to be my mission. Yeah, it's
hard. I feel that one . Tell us one invisible asset you didn't realize you had at the time.
do you mean? Like, like a gift or?
I mean, being in leadership and coming up through the development of what you do. 'cause
there was no it's no person you particularly followed, you built something. What was an asset
you had from the beginning that maybe you didn't realize that you can see now?
may, maybe curiosity. Yeah, I think there was a curiosity
I.
That's just driven me and it pulls me, it has me just wanna experience and kind of like figure
out what's beyond this place that I'm stuck in or somebody else is stuck in? I think that
curiosity has been , really powerful and beautiful. I teach about curiosity a lot. , When you have
curiosity, there's no fear. And when you have fear, there's no curiosity. And so , it's a beautiful,
check-in with ourselves. Where am I at right now? 'cause , when I'm creating from fear maybe
it works for a little bit, but it's going to
Hmm.
It's not gonna work. It's gonna backfire, you know, things are gonna crash. Whereas creating
from like curiosity, the sky's limit.
I love that. And tell us one investment, which is this is very timely for the self-care conversation.
One investment you're making now
I have,
wellbeing, for your soul.
I'm actually starting a retreat here this afternoon, and, then I'm taking most of the rest of the
year off. So it's just, it go slow and nourish and self-care time and yeah, cleanse and fast. It's
all about just taking care of me , and, nourishing.
Nice time off is what it sounds like, especially. Yeah. Nice. So I've got two questions left and ,
I'd love to know what you wish more leaders felt permission to say out loud.
I feel like this is happening more, there is just a vulnerability and authenticity that I see more
and more. I feel like , that's this new leadership that's coming aboard, whereas , maybe the last
generation is like, Hey, pretend like everything's figured out and pretend like I don't have
anything going on. So. I love, and I feel like we're creating, this new way of being. It gets to be
one of more authenticity and just more open with like, Hey guys , maybe I'm, teaching a class
right now and, and I have this thing going on in my life, and instead of keeping it hidden so no
one sees it, even though we're all psychic and aware, they all feel it.
They all feel something is off. But what if it gets to be something of like, Hey, here's what's
going on. I get to be open and, realize there's nothing
Mm-hmm.
It's um, , shame is such a funny thing. People have this shame
Yeah.
for the thing that every single other person also has as well.
And so I'm embarrassed that I have these feelings. You mean like that? Everyone else
Right.
feelings too. You.
To just be more open and be more vulnerable and, and , to be more human. And, there's just a
magic that happens in that, and that creates something that we can't work hard enough , to
make happen.
Okay, so before I get to my last question, I always wanna invite my guest if there's a way that
you want people to reach out to you.
My website is a great place that has what's going on.
Yeah.
I've been doing , a, monthly zoom class, still be doing some live events. Definitely still doing
retreats next year. But all of that stuff will be on my website ZachRehder.com.
Well, I hope people do reach out if they feel a kinship or a pull, because, I'll just testify. I know
the work you do is wonderful , and very provocative in very safe ways. So for our last question
today, it's the time machine question. If you could step into a time machine and go back to a
point in your past,
Yeah,
what would you say to a younger version of yourself?
Um. I would honestly tell him , to just to do exactly what he's gonna do. I know sometimes we
would be like, Hey, go skip that hard thing. actually , Hey, try not to have that failure or try not,
you get involved in that relationship.
That's like really gonna trigger you and challenge you because all of those things become so
valuable. I'm grateful for all of the hard things and all the painful things that happened in my life
because they were all , these opportunities to grow and to just find more of myself.
Maybe I would tell him , you know what, be willing to make more mistakes. Right. Mess up. Fail
even more that, like, that would, that's okay
Mm.
Lovely. Well, thank you so much for coming and being on the show. I've enjoyed the
conversation. I never have any idea what listeners will think, but I hope they'll let me know and
reach out to you and let you know, because I'm sure there's some people who are going to be.
Hearing a new way of thinking, a new way of experiencing life through this conversation.
📍 Thanks for listening to Lonely At the Top. If today's conversation resonated, I hope you'll
give yourself permission to pause even for just a moment and check in with what you might be
carrying. You don't have to hold it all alone. I work with high performers and leaders who
wanna clean up their secret messes.
You can learn more RachelAlexandria.com. If you know another leader who needs to hear this
show, please send it their way. Because, yeah, it's lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to stay
that way.