The Cost of Compassion with Ginger Hitzke

📍 📍 I leave money on the table, when I feel like that's the right thing to do. And I feel like
that's being a good leader, being a good leader in society, being civically active and,
participating in, the good fight.
📍 📍 📍 Welcome to Lonely At the Top, a podcast for high level leaders carrying the
invisible weight of the world. Because you know the higher you rise, the fewer people you have
to safely talk to. Here we welcome founders, executives, and decision makers who feel the
isolation and pressure that comes with power.
Lonely at the top is your sanctuary in the storm, and I'm your host Soul Medic and former
psychotherapist, Rachel Alexandria. Today we have Ginger Hitzke. I'm so excited for this
interview. I've been looking forward to it. She, she is the president of Hitzke Development
Corporation, a first generation real estate developer with 30 years of experience in the field of
affordable housing development.
Ginger specializes in the construction of new apartments. She's built 500 apartments for her
personal portfolio and has developed more than 2000 apartments total that is homing a lot of
people who need it Ginger.
Yeah.
she has, by her own words, been on a lot of boards, including just to name a few, a founding
board member for Inclusive Action for the City based in Los Angeles, Boys and Girls Club of
San Marcos, and she's currently on the board of Honor Pack. We are so lucky to have you on
the podcast today, Ginger. Thanks for coming.
Thank you for asking me. I'm excited to be here.
So we've known each other for, I wanna say, is it four years, five years
Five years since early in the pandemic.
in the pandemic. That's the only, only time I've heard that referred to cutely. Early in the
pandemic. And we met because of hair Hub.
Mm-hmm.
Which is, for folks who don't know, it's started in San Diego. It's a coworking and networking
space for, predominantly for female, business founders. And we met on a Zoom call for an
accountability group.
I was running.
Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't know, I mistook what the group was, and I thought it was one of those
days when we were supposed to like work together. And I was sitting there listening to you,
this other woman talk, and I'm like, God, when are they gonna shut up? Like, when do we start
working?
And,
You never
Yeah. Yeah. And then, the way that you introduced what you did is you said, I help high
performers with the secret messes in their life. And I was like, your job is to help me
specifically. Like, that's, that's it. And I signed up, boom, boom, boom. And we, just like went,
went at it, went to it.
It was good.
We went to it. Yeah. Ginger became, don't tell any of my other clients that Ginger's been my
favorite client
Always, always tell me that. Even if it's just lie to me. I, I
always and forever. I
think I sent you an award,
Oh,
didn't I? Yeah,
Yes. Yes you did.
Yes. We've known each other a little while, so the conversation may get, I don't know.
This should be a good, uh, yes. It's okay to go there.
Ginger is not that private of a person, which is one of the things I love about you. 'cause I think
I'm similar. When you feel or think things, you just out and say it. We are both Enneagram
eights. We haven't really talked about the Enneagram at all on this show, but, uh, for folks who
know the Enneagram, we are the same Enneagram type, which is,
the eights are the best. I think I heard Amy Poer say she's an eight, and I was like, mm-hmm.
yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, the type eight is the, the boss, the dominator, the master is
some of the ways that that can be, regarded. So it's a type that likes power and likes being in
control, and you, you know, can do really good things with it, like Ginger does and has some
struggle with vulnerability and surrender.
So
Boop right there. Right on the nose.
she's like, I don't even wanna say the word
Yep.
Well, you've known me for a while when you heard that I was launching this podcast and I
wanted you to be on it. Lonely at the top. What did that bring up for you?
Well, it made perfect sense. Given the type of people that you work with, who, I mean, I'm
guessing I, I don't know any of your other clients actually, but I'm
Maybe you do, but you would never know.
would never know. Yeah. So I mean, I had to imagine everyone that you work with is pretty
driven and pretty straightforward and is interested in being honest with themselves.
'cause that's the only way that could be working with you. So there's no BS going on here.
Um,
Nope.
but that are like, that are sensitive and that are kind of a mess in some way. So very
accomplished, accomplished messes probably, guessing I'm just
But when you think about being lonely at the top, is that something that resonates for you?
yeah, for sure. I mean, it, never ends. It never ends within your own organization. I mean, the
nice thing is, is there's lots of people who are the heads of their own organizations, and so you
can commiserate with them pretty easily. It's a pretty easy way to bond
hmm.
people who are being honest with themselves , and an honest with others, can talk about what
a challenge it is.
Just what a personal , challenge it is. Yeah.
So you find, 'cause this isn't always the case. I think it depends on industry, but it may also be,
you openness and who you attract. You find that you can easily commiserate with other people
who run organizations. You think that's a nonprofit thing more or,
no. 'cause I'm not a nonprofit. That is
oh, okay.
think people mistake a lot.
Okay.
what I do for a living, because the type of housing that I build is affordable. the reality is that's
just the type of money that I know how to use. That's my capital stack that I understand. But
some of my, my two of my closest friends, actually, all of my friends own their own businesses.
I don't even know who I hang out with that doesn't, at this point in my life. Um, I would say my
two male friends who I started in business with around the same time, was at the time my
architect and then, and business partner, and then my civil engineer.
And, um, you know, it's just hard. It's hard. , You know, payroll is an issue when you're like
starting and it's so challenging and it's exhausting. And then it's employee issues like other
human beings and them having free will, like what's up with that? And um, you know, and then
being really concerned about sort of like slowing down, uh, it a little more easy as you are,
older and more established in your company. I've had my company for 17 or 18 years, and
Hmm.
I don't have to work as hard anymore.
And that's a struggle, right? Because, because then , I'm worried, I always have this fear, like
end up in the gutter, which is ridiculous. That makes no sense. But,
Yeah,
yeah.
I think it tracks for everyone who came from poverty, and interestingly, a lot of my clients have
that story where they're in the, in a CEO suite, but they came from food stamps.
Yeah.
So that's, a trauma based fear, poverty is a trauma, so it's always a back of mind driver that
everyone that I know who has that story has to continue to work on.
give some context to that. 'cause I don't think that was introduced, that was in bio, but that's
one of those things that's, it's at the very end of the bio, if anybody ever bothers to go all the
way down to the end of the
Ginger had a very long bio for context. Ginger had a, had a two page bio and she's like, don't
read this. And I'm like, don't worry, I'm not, everyone would turn off the podcast. So we
constructed a short bio. Do you, is that okay that I share that?
totally.
Yeah. Okay.
I think it's actually perfect segue to talk about makes being a CEO type person, which I don't
have that title. My title is President. I really just am starting to think I wanna change it to boss
lady, but because I deal with the government a lot, I think it'll upset certain people that need to
be very tidy. Um, but, but, uh, yeah, so I grew up, single mom and, she had me and my sister
and, we grew up in apartments all the time, in the Midwest, in the suburbs of Chicago. we
moved out to California a little bit later, uh, when I was a teenager. But just housing, oh my
God. Housing affordability.
Housing. consistency, you know,
like
Reliability.
Yeah. Insecurity, that's the word.
Oh, okay.
housing insecurity uh, always an issue. We, we were always moving, I was always gonna
different schools. I knew that it was really stressful for my mom to pay rent
Mm-hmm.
It was just something that I can remember probably since I was in junior high. I really
understood it. So that makes my job really interesting. like I said, I, I do affordable housing
'cause it's the thing that I know how to do. I started working as a receptionist for a developer,
as a temp when I was 19.
And then I actually went to go work for him when I was like 21, I think. Full-time. And so I've
just been in this the the company that I worked for, uh, was an affordable housing development
company. And, just did that until I started my own company. And so it's, it's what I know how
to do.
And when I first started my company, I started just purely out of survival. Just, need to not lose
my house and I need to
Mm-hmm.
my car and I need to not be homeless and I need to,
Mm.
you know, just really just basic survival mode. But as I have been in this business more, I really
remember, um, how much I didn't like moving and having to start over. so I remember that as a
child. So that's one thing that's really important to me is that people can have that consistency
in, in where they live. then I also remember, when I started renting my own apartment, that
getting, a $20, $25 rent increase was like a nightmare. I mean, you're already living, paycheck
to paycheck is barely even, you know, describing it.
Mm-hmm.
and so, you know, having 20, $25 more was really challenging. So that's another thing that I
really, struggle with. It's a real struggle with going through that and having to, at the end of the
day, be the person, the buck totally stops here because I'm the, I'm the individual person that
decides what the rent increases are gonna be for every single one of my residents. I do it every
year
Yeah.
and it's
And you And you know, yeah. Yeah. And they don't know the emotional turmoil that puts you
through,
No.
it wouldn't really help if they did, probably because it doesn't matter to their budget
Mm-hmm.
you feel bad about it.
Yeah. No, I, so I'll say recently we had a little bit of a, so I'm a renter advocate, right? So I go
and speak on behalf of, renters and rented increases. So landlords and apartment association
tend to really hate me in California, . 'Cause I come out as a for-profit property owner with a
significant portfolio and I'm like, we need to stop this. We have to have some kind of controls.
We need some kind of a a level playing field,
When you say, stop this, can you spec specify when you say we need to stop?
Sure. Just having no, no rent caps in California.
Got it.
was a big problem in
Hmm.
It's, it's still an issue, but it's much better than it was before. So I'm a renter advocate and,
support individuals and support organizations that work on this, and do my part.
And, and then I have my own struggle that I go through with my own apartments and sort of
trying to deal with, taking people's income into consideration when going through and doing
rent increases every year, contemplating whether or not there will be one. Right. And a group of
people, uh, got together with an attorney that specializes in helping renters to come and, and
have an issue with me and it. Yeah. And that was like, wow. Okay. No good deed goes
unpunished, does it? And that was really tough because I was pissed.
Mm
was like, is this a swearing podcast? Are we
Oh. Do whatever you want.
okay. I was like, do you know who the fuck I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? You wanna
come after me? Someone who toils over whether or not a $10 increase is something that's
appropriate. Like, are you're seriously telling me there aren't bigger fish out there?
Mm
um, but at the same time, as much as it pissed me off in the moment, I totally get it.
Mm-hmm.
I get it.
'cause know, the folks that I rent to, they really are on the lowest income scale
Their, their money doesn't go up just because costs go up. Right.
Exactly. But also can you imagine what insurance rates are in California for housing?
These days
I have absolutely no idea.
We do
Yes.
good in California and they tend to devastate homes. And so, you
Mm-hmm.
prices are like triple. We deal with a lot
And you can only eat so many costs. You have to, at the end of the day, not be losing money
all the time.
yeah. Well, I mean, I also have to have money when, for when things go wrong,
Yeah.
an elevator breaks and it costs me $25,000, I gotta have $25,000
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
it really isn't just operating costs and profit. It's also like we gotta be ready.
Emergency money. Yeah.
Yeah. So it's a lot, it's a lot to deal with. There's so many times I wish I could be insensitive and
not care. It'd be very convenient.
How do you deal with that? You are somebody who has to make decisions,
Mm-hmm.
Regularly that affect hundreds of people where they live.
Mm-hmm.
you might feel, uh, internal conflict about it. There's what you have to do for the dollars and
cents and there's what you wish you could do from the heart.
And sometimes I'm sure one wins and sometimes the other wins. How do you deal with that
stress? Where do you take that? Because you can't talk to them.
Yeah. No kidding. Nobody, I dunno. They just, I don't, yeah. I mean, not,
You just, you just sit on it. It just sits within you and you just go, it is what it is.
is, it is what it is. And , it's just, it comes and goes. Right? So it's a thing I have to go through
once a year.
Mm-hmm.
up. That's why it's very top of mind for me.
Mm
I mean, somebody's gotta do it. I, I will say, I do take comfort in the fact that I know I'm doing
my best. know that I'm doing my best. I know that, um,
being responsible, I'm being compassionate, but I'm being responsible. And, the reality is
whether or not somebody was renting in my building or not, place that people live, a building
is alive and buildings age components, age things break. People are still much better off living
under, my roof. I'm gonna take care of it the best that I can. I'm probably gonna take care of it
better than they would. Um, so it's,
I get that. I get that. My housemate used to joke with me because whenever I would rail against
the injustice in the world or something going wrong, she'd say, well, you know, obviously
Rachey should do it. I'd be like, yes, I would be good at
in charge of all of the things. I would be a very good benevolent overlord. I really would. If
anybody ever needs it, I'm here.
this is the type eight mindset on some level. Yeah. Internally, I, I totally understand what you're
saying and I don't know if all leaders will resonate with it, but probably some will we'll say, you
know, sure it is an emotional burden, but better I do it than anyone else. You know, there's
people who, if there's a scary road to drive, they'd rather someone else did it and there's
people who would rather be behind the wheel.
Yeah. Yeah. Literally. I'm good. I'm a good off-road driver too.
So, it feels like we kind of talked about what a leadership season was that tested you in that,
this is a regularly occurring thing and then this thing with the, some of your renters getting a
lawyer. Is there anything more you wanna share about that experience, how you dealt with it?
Let's see, I threw a fit. Um., and then we held a resident meeting about it. And, 'cause I feel like
a lot of times, it's easy to be angry at someone if you don't know them. You know, like, ah, the
man. I'm the Man. And so, we did that and then we just, went through and wrapped it up.
Some things got done, some people got what they wanted and some people didn't, and it.
We'll see what happens.
What I remember about you is that every time there is something that tests you, because I
think that's a thing I've seen you experience regularly. Every year there's something business-
wise that tests you,
Yeah.
you throw yourself into solving the problem.
Like it, maybe it's a boundaries issue with someone rentings one of your spaces, or maybe it's
your employees, creating more team cohesiveness. Whenever something comes up where
there's an issue, how do you think about it?
How do you go about working the problem?
Mm. Well. I, I'm really starting to feel like this is an infomercial for you, Rachel, because I would
say because No, I know, I just, it's the truth though. That's what's, that's what's so funny. I
would say, nowadays, I call you, I schedule a magic session and we'll talk through, kinda what
the issue is, whether it's personal or, or business.
And I, I actually find that to be very, very helpful. I do talk to friends who are in business and
who have their own companies, depending on what the situation is and whether or not it's
applicable to where they are in their business journey. Certainly some friends will have more
feedback for me on employee related issues, you know,
Mm-hmm.
uh, issues or. Cashflow issues are the biggest thing that I've dealt with, uh, in business over
time. and that's, mean, it really just weighs on me, has I'm good now.
I'm great now. Um, but yeah, like, thank God, right? We never want that to end.
Mm
but, it takes a long time, takes like 10, 12
mm
to
mm.
to get into a really good groove and where you understand, how to generate your revenue, how
to keep it stable, how to keep expenses stable and all of that stuff.
But,
Mm-hmm.
you know, that is something that's definitely taken me there, and has weighed on me. And it's
also one of the very first things that I talk to people about who are newer business owners, is to
be like, oh, cash flow. Huh? And because it's like, you're really not supposed to talk about that.
You're not supposed to talk about how business is hard
Hmm.
Because some, somehow, like kind of repulses people. You gotta really walk a fine line when
you talk about your
You know, I try to dissuade people anymore from starting a business because if you don't have
grit,
Yeah.
not gonna work it out. You're just not. So when people say, oh, I'm thinking about starting a
business and blah, I'm like, okay, here's the things you're gonna need. And it don't quit your
side hustle.
It's gonna take you three to five years before you're making any kind of sustainable money.
Unless you have a bunch of money you're investing from somewhere,
Yeah,
famous connections or something that gets you past initial hurdles.
yeah,
So I hear you like,
Oh, that's interesting. 'cause I think it just depends on the person that I'm talking to.
mm-hmm.
It's sort of funny if I do talk to somebody who wants to stay comfortable.
Mm,
And a lot of times they do this where they're in my industry already and they have a senior
project manager or vice president type job, and they wanna take the leap. I'm definitely like, go
for broke. Be ready to lose everything. That's, that's the only way that you could do it. And if
they're like, oh, I was thinking of doing this on the side, and I'm like, then no, then don't, then
you don't, no.
no.
cannot do brain surgery on the side.
Mm-hmm.
this business is tough.
It is, it is so difficult. It's so much more complicated than people realize. People think, oh,
anybody can do it. You know, I hear from people all the time, oh, I wanna do that. Oh, do you,
you know, good for you. Do you wanna be a cardiologist too? You wanna do that same time?
It's super easy, super easy line of work. But if they're, if they do really seem like they can do it, I
will totally encourage,
Mm-hmm.
you will not fail yourself. You, you won't, if you're trying to go in and you're too cushy, I
definitely discourage immediately. But if someone does like, feel, I guess that is what you said.
'cause you said if they have the grit, like if they're scrappy,
If you're scrappy. Mm-hmm.
fail yourself. Put, put yourself in that situation of where you are about to lose everything and
you won't fail yourself. You will figure out a way to, to scrap your way out of it. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I, I totally agree. I think there's, there's just a certain quality and I'm not sure it can
be taught. It's just a, it's just a person's nature. If you're scrappy, then yeah, it's actually been a
theme that's come up in a couple other interviews, um, that you just, when failure's not an
option, you have to figure out a way to do it.
Yeah.
And that may be why a lot of the founders I've talked to and that I've worked with, that, that
their background is that they came from nothing because they know the pain of nothing
Mm-hmm.
and they will do anything they possibly can within their ethical ability to not go back there. To
make it work.
Yeah. Yeah. I, I will
Yeah.
It does bogle my mind sometimes people who don't from a challenging background, like a low
income background or something like that. I don't understand how they do it. I, I don't,
You don't understand why they're scrappy.
no, they're, 'cause they're not.
Oh,
not, I don't understand how they, how they can be in charge of things and be any good at it. I
really don't.
some people may have been shown management from an early age because it ran in the
family. Right? And some people have the benefit of relationships that will float them with
money
yeah.
doesn't work out, you know?
That, see, that scares me even more that, because I think that makes you soft. It does. It'll
make you
So something that I heard when you said a moment ago when you were saying, what you do
when you're faced with one of these big challenges is, you get pissed, you throw a fit
I, I
and then,
Very
then you, yeah. Not usually at the person, I would assume usually kind of on your, maybe
sometimes, but sometimes no.
little bit of both. Yeah. Uh. Yeah.
Then you talk to someone like me, but you also mentioned your friends quite an a lot, and I
think that is something that makes you stand out, that you have really invested in your
relationships while still building a family. You have two grown kids and a spouse, and
a grand
you. And Grand baby.
Yes. And you've supported extended family, you've run this business, and you still maintain
really strong friendships. I, I think some people are gonna be like, how do you do that? How do
you do all three of those things?
Oh. And, and have been extremely, civically actively involved. So I
Yeah. How are you, how are you doing that?
Oh, I think I do everything somewhat poorly. I think that's, I, I mean, I will say I do look back,
I'm 50 now and I do think of when I was in my thirties and starting this business and being
everywhere.
'cause let's see, I started in oh seven, so the iPhone was still pretty new. We didn't have wifi
everywhere, right? You couldn't do your whole entire company on this thing right here.
Mm-hmm.
And I had to physically be places I was all over the place in Southern California. And for
anybody who listens, like knows, I'm based in Temecula, most of my work is in San Diego, but I
was doing things in Los Angeles and was just everywhere.
And I don't, I truly do not know anymore how I did it. 'cause when I have one meeting in a day
now when I have to leave somewhere, I'm like, oh, that's it. That's, that's all that's getting done
this entire day. But yeah, um, I do,
Yeah.
think that I think I just did things pretty sloppy, you know, just kind
Hmm.
just as like, just as good as it could be.
That's all I could do because yeah, I have, I have definitely maintained some really, very quality
friendships
Mm-hmm.
that are very deep and meaningful. Yeah.
I think that's good advice, really. You know, perfect is the enemy of done. Whenever. Right. I
mean, I didn't come up with that, but, whenever people are overly focused on their next blog
post and polishing and polishing and polishing, it's just like, man, just publish.
Yeah.
more, publish faster.
Yeah,
stuff out. Reach out, make those connections.
yeah.
I think I,
are people gonna remember,
yeah, no.
and, and like whatever they remember like they were meant to. It was gonna
Mm-hmm.
no matter how much polish you put on it.
Yeah. Well, let's talk about your balance sheet of burdens since we're kind of talking about how
do you fit this all in? How do you do it? We open the private ledger here on the podcast, so I
would love to hear one cost that you've paid for being in leadership.
Well, I think actual costs, 'cause balance sheet, I'm like, that is a real thing in my life, right? I
borrow
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
A big part of what I have to do is borrow private money and it's very challenging, right?
Like my last project that I finished, I think the total development cost was $32 million
Oof.
for Yeah. A 43 unit
Ugh.
complex.
Wow.
So yeah, it's pretty big. And my construction loan was $28 million, which is massive, which is
crazy.
Mm,
and so talking about balance sheet, is a real topic for me.
mm-hmm.
and because I have really always, like, I strive to have money. I have money. I wanna live a nice
life. I wanna have experiences, are good and luxurious. I wanna make sure that we're very safe
financially, but I have definitely traded money for all kinds of things that I, I am passionate
about or that I care about or, that I feel is the right thing to do. I give away a lot of money.
Mm-hmm.
I leave money on the table, when I feel like that's the right thing to do. And I feel like that's
being a good leader, being a good leader in society, being civically active and, participating in,
the good fight. so I think my life could be easier if I was more selfish, hoarded money and had a
fatter balance sheet. I think that would make me more open to being able to do even more
work and make even more money. But it's like, that's not, it's not my jam. I'm
Mm-hmm.
I got enough money.
What I hear you saying, and I, I think you said it well, but just to recap, is that the cost that you
feel like you pay for being in leadership is actually making less money in a way because you
believe in doing it ethically and being of service.
Yeah.
Whereas if you just had a job job where you weren't in charge, you would just collect whatever
money they paid you and, and roll in it like a dragon.
yeah. It's, it's very Lord of the rings of you. It's very The hobbit.
Whenever I think about people just making more money for the sake of more money, and it just
becomes more and more and more, I think about dragons. It's the metaphor, you know,
hoarding wealth instead of using wealth to be of good service.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So tell us one invisible asset that you didn't used to know that you had.
My unearned self-confidence.
Yeah.
Great. 'cause you've got your earned confidence, the things that you do. I get, you know, I'm
very sassy when it comes to what I do for a living.
Mm-hmm.
and uh, and I'm very proud of it and I know how good I am at it, but it's very earned, right?
Mm-hmm.
whatever this, this level of unearned self-confidence that I have. And it's really only something
that I've started to be in touch with in the last couple of years. When I named it, um, it's a huge
asset. I'm so grateful for it. 'cause there's nothing I can do about it.
Mm-hmm. I get it.
yeah. Yeah. I like it. It's,
Hashtag type eight.
Is that it?
It's, yeah, absolutely. I had to learn as a type eight people would ask me something or I'd say
something, even when I didn't know, they'd be like, oh, what's happening over there? And I'd
be like, oh, I think it's blah, blah, blah. And then I'd hear them repeat it somewhere. I'm like, no,
actually, I don't know.
Why do you, why?
to me.
I've had to learn to be very explicit when I do know something versus when I don't know,
because the confidence energy that I just innately have will communicate that it is fact. I have a
picture of myself as a baby in a, rocking chair. And the way I'm sitting there like, like all like,
yeah, like,
That's so funny.
I'm like, that's so type eight.
Oh my
There's just. There's just a way that we come into this world like this. You know, we're like, I, I
can go do a thing. I just know I can make it work.
yes. I do think that I can basically do anything. If I don't, it's just because I'm just not caring to
try. Yeah.
And sometimes physically I try to do things and I'm like, oh, I actually can't do that. Whoops.
Yeah. I absolutely agree it is an asset and I can understand how it used to be invisible to you.
Yeah.
So tell us one investment you're making now for your mental wellbeing or your soul.
Well, I'm actively doing Soft Girl Summer, I'm just really trying to like do the bare minimum right
now. so I've been doing this since the beginning of July.
I am going through the end of August. We're almost here.
Mm.
and, it's been helpful because I, I'm realizing emails and people connecting with me is way out
of control
Mm
uh, that's a big issue with me right now. And I guess that's one of those sort of things that, um,
you know, being accessible has felt a very good deed and a good service to people.
But I think that season is over
mm
be less accessible, even, even to people who have had, who have enjoyed, access to me.
mm.
Uh, it's like, oh boy, you're gonna, you're gonna have a surprise. 'Cause I'm gonna become
less accessible. And I just think that's very important, for me to be able to do that in order to
grow. Because I do want to move into, doing some new things.
And it's gone well, and I would say for anybody who, holds on tightly to things that have served
them in the past, and being accessible to people, being very, very well known and very well
liked, it's served me well and, but it's time to change that and to be a
Mm.
accessible,
Yeah. Good for you.
do.
Yeah.
I love that. It's a great answer and probably good advice for folks listening. So what do you
wish more leaders felt permission to say out loud?
Um, I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know right now. I
Hmm
know.
mm-hmm.
that's, that is the, like, I, I just don't know.
You wish me.
I wish people would just be like, I don't know. I think it's okay. I wish it was said more in like,
uh. In a political context. You know, feel like people who are in leadership positions, who are in
all areas of government, whether they are elected or, not elected, they're employed by a
government agency. I wish people would just say, I don't know, more often more that's more
real
Mm.
what we have going on right now.
And I think it's, it's creating a real problem in our society. Everybody just has to be right. Um,
mm.
like know what they're talking about. It's like, we, we don't, what, what, how could we possibly
know? I think that's the first thing that comes to mind. And I think it's totally fine to say when
you're a leader. Are you, oh, I'm really gonna be taken down by one
I don't know? No. I think that's okay.
Nice. Yeah. I, I like when people say, I don't know, but let's figure it out together. Right. We
don't want, I don't know, to be the end of the sentence.
Correct. Yes. But I can, you can have a pause. You could pause.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Good one. Well, before I get to the last question, is there anything you wanna tell
people about?
There anything that you want to shed, uh, spotlight on or that, or direct attention to that you
think is important?
You are currently on the board for
Honor PAC something.
Yeah.
I mean, if you are interested in supporting L-G-B-T-Q Latino elected officials in California,
check out Honor PAC. I believe we are honorpac.org.
Yeah, great. We will put it in the show notes. I love that.
Okay. Okay.
Yeah, I mean that's, that's the nice thing about leadership, right? It doesn't have to be all about
us. It's like where do I want to direct the attention that's currently focused on me?
Yeah, yeah,
Okay. Nice. Alright, last question. We're about to open the time machine
Okay.
and you get to, step back in time, what would you say to an earlier version of yourself in your
career?
Okay. This is when I was really feeling myself, right? I, had just had some big,
accomplishments. So like I said, I had started as a receptionist and then I was a project
coordinator, project manager, senior project manager, then vice president of development. And
then I started my own company. So back when I was a project manager, I was like 26 years old
and I was, oh my God. I really thought it was something. And I definitely would have sat myself
down and said, um, look, you are very smart you are very, very good at this. But we need to,
we need you to learn diplomacy here.
I think that would've, helped a lot with a lot of things, early on. And I don't know that it
would've necessarily advanced my career more. 'cause I was pretty good about pushing
through no matter what. But, I would like to talk to that, young lady. And let her know how
important that is, with people. 'Cause I, fell in my face a bunch of times. Uh, got my ass
handed to me, which I guess was the universe's way, uh, of doing that. And then when I
started my company, oh man, that was rough. I definitely think that I would have shown her
who I am now, right now been like, you're gonna go through whatever you're gonna go
through, but this is where you're gonna get, you're gonna get here.
And it's, it's gonna be good. Yeah.
I love that. Thank you so much for coming and sharing your wisdom and your stories and your
laughter. It's been a pleasure to have you, Ginger,
Thank you so much. I can't wait to listen. I'm so excited.
📍 Thanks for listening to Lonely At the Top. If today's conversation resonated, I hope you'll
give yourself permission to pause even for a moment and check in with what you might be
carrying.
You don't have to hold it all alone. You don't have to keep doing this without real support. As
we talked about on the podcast, I work with leaders who wanna clean up their secret messes,
and you can find out more about me@rachelalexandria.com. If you know another leader who
needs to hear this podcast, please send it their way because yeah, it's lonely at the top, but it
doesn't have to stay that way.